
just out of curiosity: does the OTRS already use XML / CSS / + XSL instead of creating pure HTML/XHTML or is that something you are trying to avoid? if not:anyone interested to join the dev of OTRS with XML support? just wondering /g --- www.gh-webinteractive.com

On Wed, Nov 03, bobsmith1@marketweighton.com wrote:
just out of curiosity: does the OTRS already use XML / CSS / + XSL instead of creating pure HTML/XHTML or is that something you are trying to avoid?
We are not trying to avoid it but until now many browsers which are used at our clients side still don't support CSS as it would be needed to change to a complete CSS version.
if not:anyone interested to join the dev of OTRS with XML support?
It will happen some day. But don't ask me for a date. But feel free to go ahead. take care Stefan -- ((otrs.de)) :: OTRS GmbH :: Norsk-Data-Str. 1 :: 61352 Bad Homburg http://www.otrs.de/ :: Tel. +49 (0)6172 4832388

Stefan Wintermeyer schrieb:
We are not trying to avoid it but until now many browsers which are used at our clients side still don't support CSS as it would be needed to change to a complete CSS version.
Just wondering which browsers (and versions, probably) are these? With kind regards, Robert Kehl

Hi Bob, bobsmith1@marketweighton.com wrote:
just out of curiosity: does the OTRS already use XML / CSS / + XSL instead of creating pure HTML/XHTML or is that something you are trying to avoid? if not:anyone interested to join the dev of OTRS with XML support? just wondering /g
OTRS 1.x already use css. But the css implementation on OTRS 2.0 is rewritten. We moved to real names like contentbody, contenthead, mainhead, .... Some example pages: http://demo.otrs.org/~martin/otrs-edit.html http://demo.otrs.org/~martin/otrs-page.html http://demo.otrs.org/~martin/otrs-search.html http://demo.otrs.org/~martin/otrs-tab.html What do you think about? And what was your idea? Thanks, Martin Edenhofer -- ((otrs.de)) :: OTRS GmbH :: Norsk-Data-Str. 1 :: 61352 Bad Homburg http://www.otrs.de/ :: Manage your communication!

On Thu, Nov 04, Martin Edenhofer wrote:
bobsmith1@marketweighton.com wrote:
just out of curiosity: does the OTRS already use XML / CSS / + XSL instead of creating pure HTML/XHTML or is that something you are trying to avoid? if not:anyone interested to join the dev of OTRS with XML support? just wondering
OTRS 1.x already use css. But the css implementation on OTRS 2.0 is rewritten. We moved to real names like contentbody, contenthead, mainhead, ....
Some example pages:
http://demo.otrs.org/~martin/otrs-edit.html http://demo.otrs.org/~martin/otrs-page.html http://demo.otrs.org/~martin/otrs-search.html http://demo.otrs.org/~martin/otrs-tab.html
What do you think about? And what was your idea?
I think Bob means "real" CSS support. That would be to avoid all <table> tags for layout purposes. A CSS page uses <table>s only for a table and not for layout in form of columns. regards Stefan Wintermeyer -- ((otrs.de)) :: OTRS GmbH :: Norsk-Data-Str. 1 :: 61352 Bad Homburg http://www.otrs.de/ :: Tel. +49 (0)6172 4832388

Stefan Wintermeyer wrote:
just out of curiosity: does the OTRS already use XML / CSS / + XSL instead of creating pure HTML/XHTML or is that something you are trying to avoid? if not:anyone interested to join the dev of OTRS with XML support? just wondering
OTRS 1.x already use css. But the css implementation on OTRS 2.0 is rewritten. We moved to real names like contentbody, contenthead, mainhead, ....
Some example pages:
http://demo.otrs.org/~martin/otrs-edit.html http://demo.otrs.org/~martin/otrs-page.html http://demo.otrs.org/~martin/otrs-search.html http://demo.otrs.org/~martin/otrs-tab.html
What do you think about? And what was your idea?
I think Bob means "real" CSS support. That would be to avoid all <table> tags for layout purposes. A CSS page uses <table>s only for a table and not for layout in form of columns.
http://demo.otrs.org/~martin/*.html ist "real" CSS support. What you mean is the CSS to replace table tags. IMO this is really no good idea (IMO). But maybe Bob means xml/xsl > html transformation? OTRS generates xml and the html gets generated via xsl (e. g. with Saxon). Maybe this would ne new cool stuff. Bob?
regards Stefan Wintermeyer
Martin Edenhofer -- ((otrs.de)) :: OTRS GmbH :: Norsk-Data-Str. 1 :: 61352 Bad Homburg http://www.otrs.de/ :: Manage your communication!

On Thu, Nov 04, Martin Edenhofer wrote:
http://demo.otrs.org/~martin/*.html ist "real" CSS support. What you mean is the CSS to replace table tags.
Of course there is no definition of "real". But as fare as CSS is described and used it is fare beyond the present code we are using. I am refering to books like "Cascading Style Sheets" by Eric A. Meyer. http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596005253
IMO this is really no good idea (IMO).
I disagree but that is a religious argumentation. I think in the long run there is no way to avoid such a CSS implementation. It need less bandwith, is more flexible and takes care of handicapped accessiblity problems. But I do agree that the work which is necessary to do it now is fare beyond scope.
But maybe Bob means xml/xsl > html transformation?
OTRS generates xml and the html gets generated via xsl (e. g. with Saxon). Maybe this would ne new cool stuff. Bob?
Of course it would be cool but IMO a waste of CPU power and time. take care Stefan -- ((otrs.de)) :: OTRS GmbH :: Norsk-Data-Str. 1 :: 61352 Bad Homburg http://www.otrs.de/ :: Tel. +49 (0)6172 4832388

On Thu, Nov 04, Martin Edenhofer wrote:
http://demo.otrs.org/~martin/*.html ist "real" CSS support. What you mean is the CSS to replace table tags.
Of course there is no definition of "real". But as fare as CSS is described and used it is fare beyond the present code we are using.
I am refering to books like "Cascading Style Sheets" by Eric A. Meyer. http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596005253
IMO this is really no good idea (IMO).
I disagree but that is a religious argumentation. I think in the long run there is no way to avoid such a CSS implementation. It need less bandwith, is more flexible and takes care of handicapped accessiblity problems.
But I do agree that the work which is necessary to do it now is fare beyond scope.
But maybe Bob means xml/xsl > html transformation?
OTRS generates xml and the html gets generated via xsl (e. g. with Saxon). Maybe this would ne new cool stuff. Bob?
Of course it would be cool but IMO a waste of CPU power and time.
take care Stefan
-- ((otrs.de)) :: OTRS GmbH :: Norsk-Data-Str. 1 :: 61352 Bad Homburg http://www.otrs.de/ :: Tel. +49 (0)6172 4832388 _______________________________________________ OTRS mailing list: dev - Webpage: http://otrs.org/ Archive: http://lists.otrs.org/pipermail/dev To unsubscribe: http://lists.otrs.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/dev
martin+stefan+the rest, What the user sees is different from the content of what the user sees. if you already have xml for the content, and generate html out of it, then you basically have my idea, but...: I read the book eXtreme Programming(by kent beck), and I'm also a fan of testdriven development, so using xml for the content means we can write automated tests for the entire OTRS application, and separate the output of the application (XML) with user interface packages(in (X)HTML)....that's my idea...I haven't ever looked at the code of otrs so I don't know what you are doing in there. It also would mean that we can have tests at the customer site, and simply run them to validate that the application behaves like it should behave. so basically: application output---->xml---->html----->visual content | | +-------->tests--->>validation for correct operation--->money each package in OTRS would come with a test suite, which checks the output of the application ( XML + dtd) and validates that the output is conformant to the package test criterias, that way we can be sure that OTRS behaves like we want it to behave, the only thing left to test/validate would be exactly how the application looks (what the user sees)...( look and feel ) what do you think? do you already do it this way? best R /G www.gh-webinteractive.com

Hi Bob, bobsmith1@marketweighton.com wrote:
What the user sees is different from the content of what the user sees.
if you already have xml for the content, and generate html out of it, then you basically have my idea, but...:
I read the book eXtreme Programming(by kent beck), and I'm also a fan of testdriven development, so using xml for the content means we can write automated tests for the entire OTRS application, and separate the output of the application (XML) with user interface packages(in (X)HTML)....that's my idea...I haven't ever looked at the code of otrs so I don't know what you are doing in there. It also would mean that we can have tests at the customer site, and simply run them to validate that the application behaves like it should behave.
so basically: application output---->xml---->html----->visual content | | +-------->tests--->>validation for correct operation--->money
each package in OTRS would come with a test suite, which checks the output of the application ( XML + dtd) and validates that the output is conformant to the package test criterias, that way we can be sure that OTRS behaves like we want it to behave, the only thing left to test/validate would be exactly how the application looks (what the user sees)...( look and feel )
what do you think? do you already do it this way?
I like this way of testing. This should be a way for the frontend testing which we should go. But this means also to change the OTRS core in a really hard way. -=> We can think about it in new mayor releases (e. g. OTRS3 or OTRS4). PS: We like people with new ideas. If you want to get involved, feel free to contact us. :)
best R /G
Martin Edenhofer -- ((otrs.de)) :: OTRS GmbH :: Norsk-Data-Str. 1 :: 61352 Bad Homburg http://www.otrs.de/ :: Manage your communication!
participants (4)
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bobsmith1@marketweighton.com
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Martin Edenhofer
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Robert Kehl
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Stefan Wintermeyer