Based on my recent experience with trying to get help with bug 1351 (http://bugs.otrs.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1351) it would appear that OTRS developers are no longer interested in working with people who are experiencing problems. Given the amount of time I've put into troubleshooting, supporting, and advocating for this project over the years I find this attitude extremely disappointing. If anyone has any recommendations for other open source ticket systems to look at (not RT), please send me private email. Thanks, Bryan
Hi Bryan, that's not true. OTRS developers are interested to work with people who are experiencing problems. The problem of this bug (#1351) it that Bodo can't reproduce this on different systems. :-( And if there is no bug to reproduce, then the developer can't fix it. If you or somebody else have any idea how to reproduce it, let me know. Bryan, many thanks for your help! -Martin (Edenhofer) Bryan Fullerton schrieb:
Based on my recent experience with trying to get help with bug 1351 (http://bugs.otrs.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1351) it would appear that OTRS developers are no longer interested in working with people who are experiencing problems.
Given the amount of time I've put into troubleshooting, supporting, and advocating for this project over the years I find this attitude extremely disappointing.
If anyone has any recommendations for other open source ticket systems to look at (not RT), please send me private email.
Thanks, Bryan _______________________________________________ OTRS mailing list: dev - Webpage: http://otrs.org/ Archive: http://lists.otrs.org/pipermail/dev To unsubscribe: http://lists.otrs.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/dev
On 3/12/07, Martin Edenhofer
that's not true. OTRS developers are interested to work with people who are experiencing problems.
The problem of this bug (#1351) it that Bodo can't reproduce this on different systems. :-(
And if there is no bug to reproduce, then the developer can't fix it.
Sure, but I was still asking questions about how exactly the system imported data into the affected table, at which point I would have gone off and tried to replicate the problem. My question was ignored and the issue closed, and all CC'ed developers removed from the bug. Bryan
Sure, but I was still asking questions about how exactly the system imported data into the affected table, at which point I would have gone off and tried to replicate the problem.
My question was ignored and the issue closed, and all CC'ed developers removed from the bug.
I agree they don't seem too eager to try to reproduce the problem. As you volunteer to give the necessary feedback so they can try the reproduce, I really think they should at least try that. Looking for an other ticketing system because of this, seems like over reacting.... Regards, Richard
On 3/12/07, Richard Hinkamp - BeSite
I agree they don't seem too eager to try to reproduce the problem. As you volunteer to give the necessary feedback so they can try the reproduce, I really think they should at least try that.
Especially since I have a long track record of troubleshooting OTRS, in particular PostgreSQL issues on new releases (which I suspect this is).
Looking for an other ticketing system because of this, seems like over reacting....
It's good to be aware of what options are out there, and I haven't looked at the alternatives in a long time. Bryan
Hi, as I am the reason for the excitement I'd like to apologize to Bryan and give some background to the recent activity in Bugzilla. First of all I'm sorry for not giving enough attention to your problem Bryan. I truly tried to reproduce your problem (even attached a screen-shot of my working setup) but didn't get to the bug. We'll revisit this bug and will get to the root of the problem, promised. Then I'd like to give some feedback to the generally bad state of many Bugzilla entries. It is true that in the past many of the reported bugs didn't get the attention they deserved. I found plenty examples of bugs that never received any answer, or ended in the middle of a thread without providing a solution. Thanks to all of you who still reported bugs. I'm not sure if I would have had the patience that many of you demonstrated. But this is about to change. I made it my personal objective to improve the way how ((otrs)) treats Bugzilla entries and to get an answer to every filed bug within reasonable time. You may not get solution, but at least some feedback should be given within a couple of days to let you know that we got your feedback and are going to address the issue (if we can reproduce it and agree that there in deed is a problem...). We're not quite there yet, but we are making good progress to reach this target. To get there we first needed to weed out old bug reports. Many bugs are solved in newer releases, but were still open. Another big group of reports existed where the reporter didn't follow up on questions we had in order to reproduce the issue. Many bugs were not bugs at all but support requests or sometimes not related to OTRS at all but general Apache/Linux issues. So I went through all reports, tried to answer as many of them as possible readjusted severity etc. In order to use Bugzilla as a productive tool we need to be able to see and focus on real issues. That's why we closed many of the old reports. Maybe I was too agressive closing some of them like in Bryan's case. For this I apologize and promise to improve in the future. But be assured that in no way is it my or any ((otrs)) employees intention to alienate our user community or to discourage anyone form filing bug reports. Quite the opposite is true. The intention of the 'big Bugzilla clean-up' is to get to a new start, to refocus on fixing bugs and to improve our code quality. Your help is appreciated and we don't want to loose a single member of the OTRS community. Please keep up your great work and help us to make OTRS a success. BB -- ((otrs)) :: OTRS GmbH :: Norsk-Data-Strasse 1 :: D - 61352 Bad Homburg Fon: +49 (0) 6172 681988 0 :: Fax: +49 (0) 9421 56818 18 http://www.otrs.com/ :: Communication with success! Geschäftsführer: André Mindermann, Martin Edenhofer Handelsregister: HRB 9452 Bad Homburg Steuernummer: 003/240/97521
Hallo. I can absolute acknowledge this :-) In the last weeks there was a very high activity in bugtracker and cvs. Many of the old bugs was reviewed, assigned or even fixed. I was very happy to see thate somebody takes care about the hole bugtracker. Thanks for this Bodo! -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen André Bauer System: Ubuntu 6.06.1/Apache 2.0.55-MOD_PERL/MySQL 5.0.21/OTRS 2.1.6 ============================================ BB> Hi, BB> as I am the reason for the excitement I'd like to apologize to Bryan and BB> give some background to the recent activity in Bugzilla. BB> First of all I'm sorry for not giving enough attention to your problem BB> Bryan. I truly tried to reproduce your problem (even attached a BB> screen-shot of my working setup) but didn't get to the bug. We'll BB> revisit this bug and will get to the root of the problem, promised. BB> Then I'd like to give some feedback to the generally bad state of many BB> Bugzilla entries. It is true that in the past many of the reported bugs BB> didn't get the attention they deserved. I found plenty examples of bugs BB> that never received any answer, or ended in the middle of a thread BB> without providing a solution. Thanks to all of you who still reported BB> bugs. I'm not sure if I would have had the patience that many of you BB> demonstrated. BB> But this is about to change. I made it my personal objective to improve BB> the way how ((otrs)) treats Bugzilla entries and to get an answer to BB> every filed bug within reasonable time. You may not get solution, but at BB> least some feedback should be given within a couple of days to let you BB> know that we got your feedback and are going to address the issue (if we BB> can reproduce it and agree that there in deed is a problem...). BB> We're not quite there yet, but we are making good progress to reach this BB> target. To get there we first needed to weed out old bug reports. Many BB> bugs are solved in newer releases, but were still open. Another big BB> group of reports existed where the reporter didn't follow up on BB> questions we had in order to reproduce the issue. Many bugs were not BB> bugs at all but support requests or sometimes not related to OTRS at all BB> but general Apache/Linux issues. So I went through all reports, tried BB> to answer as many of them as possible readjusted severity etc. In order BB> to use Bugzilla as a productive tool we need to be able to see and focus BB> on real issues. That's why we closed many of the old reports. BB> Maybe I was too agressive closing some of them like in Bryan's case. For BB> this I apologize and promise to improve in the future. BB> But be assured that in no way is it my or any ((otrs)) employees BB> intention to alienate our user community or to discourage anyone form BB> filing bug reports. Quite the opposite is true. The intention of the BB> 'big Bugzilla clean-up' is to get to a new start, to refocus on fixing BB> bugs and to improve our code quality. BB> Your help is appreciated and we don't want to loose a single member of BB> the OTRS community. Please keep up your great work and help us to make BB> OTRS a success. BB> BB
Hi Bodo, Bodo Bauer schrieb: [...]
But this is about to change. I made it my personal objective to improve the way how ((otrs)) treats Bugzilla entries and to get an answer to every filed bug within reasonable time. You may not get solution, but at least some feedback should be given within a couple of days to let you know that we got your feedback and are going to address the issue (if we can reproduce it and agree that there in deed is a problem...).
[...]
In order to use Bugzilla as a productive tool we need to be able to see and focus on real issues. That's why we closed many of the old reports.
Thanks for informing us about your new strategy of ((otrs)). I think you're quite right in cleaning up bugzilla. It's the same experience we made with our OTRS-usage: only if the properties of tickets/bugs are set correctly and only if the amount of entries is manageable, then these tools can be used powerful to keep and even to improve the quality of the shipped product or delivered service. In the past months, I think ((otrs)) was hard working on new features like OTRS::ITSM without assuring sufficient quality of the basis OTRS-framework. I think that this strategy would not have been good for this really great software at all. I absolutly welcome the change began. Bye, Alex
On 3/13/07, Bodo Bauer
Maybe I was too agressive closing some of them like in Bryan's case. For this I apologize and promise to improve in the future.
Ok, thanks. I apologize too for overreacting. I think it's great that the bugzilla bugs are getting more attention. The bug I was talking about was opened last September, and I know it's not that old compared to some. In general, do you (OTRS dev team) prefer discussion of particular types of issues in bugzilla or on the dev list? Perhaps we can clarify what is expected to go in which place, so problems can be dealt appropriately. Most of the issues I've reported, for example, are related to testing upgrades when they're in Beta or RC (which might be better reported on the dev list?), and PostgreSQL-related issues in the config/code/documentation. Thanks, Bryan
Hallo. In my opinion there is absolutely nothing unfriendly. Its just not reproducible for them. By thwe way. The developpers dont have to give support. For proffesional support you can mail sales@otrs.com. Nevermind. I can reproduce your problem with OTRS 2.1.6 an will add my infos to your bug report. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen André Bauer System: Ubuntu 6.06.1/Apache 2.0.55-MOD_PERL/MySQL 5.0.21/OTRS 2.1.5 ============================================ BF> Based on my recent experience with trying to get help with bug 1351 BF> (http://bugs.otrs.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1351) it would appear that OTRS BF> developers are no longer interested in working with people who are BF> experiencing problems. BF> Given the amount of time I've put into troubleshooting, supporting, BF> and advocating for this project over the years I find this attitude BF> extremely disappointing. BF> If anyone has any recommendations for other open source ticket systems BF> to look at (not RT), please send me private email. BF> Thanks, BF> Bryan BF> _______________________________________________ BF> OTRS mailing list: dev - Webpage: http://otrs.org/ BF> Archive: http://lists.otrs.org/pipermail/dev BF> To unsubscribe: http://lists.otrs.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/dev
participants (6)
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Alexander Scholler -
André Bauer -
Bodo Bauer -
Bryan Fullerton -
Martin Edenhofer -
Richard Hinkamp - BeSite