Hello Shawn / Alex. I thought that ideascale is only for ideas of powerusers like Manuel described it here: http://forums.otrs.org/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=6206&p=24840#p24840 This thread was created in cause of: http://forums.otrs.org/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=6075 I dont think that ideascale can replace bugzilla. Bugzilla is for bugs ideascale for ideas. I also dont know if its good idea to split to more and more services that all needs a separate login. Currently there allready are: - forums - wiki - bugzilla - mailinglists - ideascale - surveymonkey - ??? Imho bugzilla should also be used for feature requests furthermore. -- Mit freundlichen Grüssen André Bauer ============================================ AH> Shawn Beasley wrote :

...

I personally believe that ideascale should be reviewed as a real possible replacement for bugzilla. What are your views?

AH> Hi Shawn, AH> great that you're back ! :) AH> If you mean replacement for enhancement bugs I totally agree. Ideas need AH> to be discussed and rated which can be done better with ideascale than AH> with bugzilla. AH> But I have to agree that it's not perfect yet. For example I would AH> divide the ideas by target groups or similiar so that one sees the top AH> ideas of each group instead of one single top idea. This is due to the AH> discussion about power users in the forum. I agree that the pure number AH> of votes is not the perfect weighting so this could be a solution. AH> In general I would also suggest to form community workgroups for AH> different functionalities of OTRS to bundle and accelerate the AH> evolution. At the moment needed community workgroups are IMHO "CMDB" and AH> "Incident / Problem Management". AH> If you mean replacement for bugzilla in general I'd like to hear the AH> advantages. I think bugzilla is better suited for precisley tracking AH> down bugs than ideascale. AH> So I'm very glad that bugs and ideas now get separated for easier AH> handling and better overview. AH> Regards AH> Alexander AH> -- AH> radprax Gesellschaft fuer medizinische Versorgungszentren mbH, AH> Bergstr. 7 - 9, 42105 Wuppertal, AH> Fon: +49 202 2489 1110, Fax: +49 202 2489 94 1119 AH> Geschaeftsfuehrer: Andreas Martin, Dr. med. Heiner Steffens, Dr. med. Renate Tewaag AH> Amtsgericht Wuppertal: HRB 19359, St.-Nr.: 132/5889/0264, DE 814559152 AH> Web: http://www.radprax.de AH> --------------------------------------------------------------------- AH> OTRS mailing list: otrs - Webpage: http://otrs.org/ AH> Archive: http://lists.otrs.org/pipermail/otrs AH> To unsubscribe: http://lists.otrs.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/otrs

Hi André, Udo, I'm confused regarding the terminology. Do you distinguish between "ideas" and "feature requests" ? Regards Alexander -- radprax Gesellschaft für Medizinische Versorgungszentren mbH | Sitz und Registergericht: Wuppertal, HRB 19359 | Bergstr. 7 - 9, 42105 Wuppertal Geschäftsführung: Andreas Martin, Dr. Heiner Steffens, Dr. Renate Tewaag Direktkontakt Fon +49 202 2489 1123, Fax +49 202 2489 94 1123

On 11/05/2010 12:07 PM, Udo Bretz wrote:

Hi Alexander,

for me a feature request is the same as an "enhancement request" in bugzilla, and that's still the place where to file such things.

As I mentioned before, this has the advantage of easier reference in our release notes, and cvs commits.

I see ideascale as a place to discuss ideas with other users, do voting, etc, but in my opinion if this process is over, and the requirements are specified, an enhancement report in bugzilla should be filed.

Put another way, then, ideascale is for brainstorming and "wishful thinking", whereas bugzilla is for actually implementing concrete concepts (that may have come from topics discussed on ideascale). Is that correct ? -- Daniel Maher <dma PLUS otrs AT witbe DOT net> "The Internet is completely over." -- Prince

Hello all! I am sure that this thread will bring us forward, and I am happy to see that this discussion is being actively engaged, by all sides. There is a certain history involved here, and we are looking to move forward in leaps and bounds, with your help - and yes some new tools. I think that the discussion could be better handled in another form, but André makes a good point here in his response which I would love to address. On Nov 3, 2010, at 13:34 , monotek@gmx.net wrote:

I thought that ideascale is only for ideas of powerusers like Manuel described it here: http://forums.otrs.org/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=6206&p=24840#p24840

Ideascale is a crowd-sourcing tool http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowdsourcing. To get the best picture, please watch what the developers of Ideascale (or at least their marketers :)) say about this tool; this is found on the homepage http://ideascale.com/. Exactly this, is the way we want to use it.

I dont think that ideascale can replace bugzilla. Bugzilla is for bugs ideascale for ideas.

In my post, earlier in this thread, I did pose the question about a replacement for Bugzilla. However unorthodox this question may have been (seemed to be), the question was posed to generate thought and action in the mailing list titled "User questions and DISCUSSIONS about OTRS". In retrospect, this may not be the appropriate forum for this conversation. The question is much deeper then the subject matter in the list. However, we have no "more appropriate" forum at this time. I do suggest moving this topic to the user forums, so that only those absolutely involved/interested in the discussion must read it. How do you all fell about this? Let me address the following service currently offered:

I also dont know if its good idea to split to more and more services that all needs a separate login.

Currently there allready are:

- forums

The user forums are here and are for those not interested, or tekkie, enough to join the mailing list. It also offers a more self-centered approach to communication: I have to want to read and participate in the thread, otherwise I can just ignore posts. And, I do not have to maintain, or delete, any mail that was "unsolicited". The forum is structured, and allows me to get to the information a little more quickly, depending upon my skill level. I have a visible status raking in the community. Purpose: A compliment to the mailing list, very interactive. Pros: Highly accepted and widely used in many different areas of life. Cons: Not available off line. Divides the community questions and information partly from the mailing list.

- wiki

The Wiki is a little more then just self-centerdness. It allows me to transport ideas that can be edited by anyone, revised, and revisions to be recovered if needed. It is a good means of protocoling ideas and thoughts that grow and change as time and OTRS progress. Purpose: On-line Collaboration, How-to's, Special Installation Guides, Configuration specials, purely instructional. Pros: Unlike reading a forum or mailing list thread, the changes are immediately visible and the pieces of the puzzle are in place, where they belong. You do not have to read an entire 5 page / 20 mail post to get the idea. Cons: Tends to get messy without proper maintenance.

- bugzilla

This tool is primarily for the Developers, however the input from the Community helps the developer team by reporting issues that they have/are experienced/experiencing. The tool is critical in aiding the developers in prioritizing the work needed to make the next release. When writing a bug report it is key to make sure to follow good bug writing etiquette to ensure that the bug gets the correct attention. Purpose: to aid developers to categorize, protocol, and fix issues per assignment. Pros: a very hierarchically structured tool for categorizing issues with a strong timeline and statistical use Con: no useable form of feedback about feature requests

- mailinglists

Mailing lists are probably, next to bulletin boards from the days of the modem, one of the oldest form of community. It builds the base roots of the OTRS community. They allow power users to organize, respond to, and read community news, support users, and talk about development issues. Purpose: Push information about, or around, a community. Pros: Once subscribed, all information sent to the list is sent to you. No message is missed. Archives (on and off-line) are a good soruce of information and are indexed by many third party mail archiving services. Cons: The content must be manually filtered and maintained and categorization. There is as well a certain etiquette that has to be adhered to in order to effectively use the power of the list.

- ideascale

Ideascale is a powerful tool for end-users to submit new and fresh ideas that are to be voted and discussed upon. A breeding ground if you will, for users to spew ideas in an open format, and to discuss them. Voting, as well as discussions, make ideas more prominent and assist developers in deciding upon features that need to be implemented. Purpose: An idea melting pot and pre-feature implementation assessment tool. Pro: Visual aid in showing the progression, acceptance, and applicability of a specific idea. Cons: you have to login to use it.

- surveymonkey

A survey helps to gain an overview about participation, ideas, felling, desires in a more analytical and direct way. Where as ideascale is powered by the community and their independent thoughts, surveys allow for a more directed approach to gather specific information. Purpose: To gather information about a specific topic in yes, no, maybe form. Pro: Graphical representation of a sample group. Cons: Very static and sometimes time confusing. Representation is only possible with participation. So, I apologize if my long-windedness is not desired, but I think that this is the first step in clearing up a little confusion about the toolset, and the need for them. Thanks for reading! -- Shawn Beasley Computers make work, not had without them, go faster!